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- Rainbow Railroad
- Trans Hub -- please note, this is an Australian site and the "find a provider tool" will link to clinicians in Australia, but much of the site is otherwise applicable globally.
- Use THIS form to share your preferred anatomical terms with your healthcare provider
- Resources of trans and gender diverse people HERE
- Resources for clinicians HERE
- World Professional Association for Transgender Health
✅Untag Period Underwear for Gender Queer, Trans Men, and others -- Untag was particularly kind when we emailed them and they suggested, John, one of our interview subjects for this episode!
Cleveland Clinic. (2023, April 12). Low testosterone in women: Causes, symptoms & treatment. Cleveland Clinic.
Gravely, A. K., & Brotto, L. A. (2025). The Non-Cisgender Experience of Menstruation and Menopause: Literature Review and Recommendations. Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology Canada, 48(1), 103161.
Jewell, T. (2019, October 22). Risk Factors of Having High or Low Estrogen Levels in Males. Healthline; Healthline Media.
MacMillen, H. (2016, May 25). Why Trans Male Model Sawyer DeVuyst Starred In A Period Underwear Ad. Refinery29; Refinery29.
Mcintosh, P. (1989). White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack.
Pelvic pain and persistent menses in transgender men | Transgender Care. (2019). UCSF.edu.
Reading, W. (2014, November 4). My Period and Me: A Trans Guy’s Guide to Menstruation. Everyday Feminism.
Liesl 00:00
Happy Pride Month, Malea.
Malea 00:01
Happy Pride Month. At least right now, as we're recording this, it's June, aka Pride Month.
Liesl 00:06
And in light of the time of year, we decided we want to take a look at the intersection between periods and the trans non-binary community,
Malea 00:14
and we are flipping our planned episode flow - pun intended - today. Instead of doing an interview first, followed by a question, and then our research. We're going to answer our ask for a question, discuss our research, and then finish with the interview. As a reminder, nothing we discuss in the podcast is medical advice, and you should always seek out a healthcare provider to help you manage any symptoms, medical issues, and so on. Today, we are specifically looking at the trans and gender diverse experiences with menstruation, and will link all our resources for finding health care if you aren't in an area where gender affirming care is an option.
Liesl 00:48
Excellent. So, Malea, I have to say that this intersection of menstruation and the trans and gender diverse community is not something I've given much thought to in the past, and in realizing this, I was reminded of the concept of carrying an invisible quote knapsack of privilege. This concept comes from Peggy McIntosh, his 1989 essay, White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack, which, thanks to a wonderful sociology professor, I first read in college, and it has forever changed the way I think of my own privilege,
Malea 01:20
and we'll try to find it and link it on the blog.
Liesl 01:23
In her essay, Macintosh lists certain privileged experiences common to white people. For example, quote, I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed. So I considered my period privilege, if you will, as a cisgender woman. One example I came up with is that I can walk into bathroom, a women's bathroom, and expect to find a menstrual product dispensing machine, and even more significant than that, I can expect to feel safe managing my period in a public restroom. Malea, can you think of an instance of period privilege you've experienced?
Malea 01:58
Oh, definitely, menstrual products being available in a bathroom, and the wide range of products targeted specifically as my demographic as a white cisgendered woman, but also the way the medical community treats me simply because I'm a white heterosexual woman versus my non-white and non-heterosexual peers. My period pain and other period symptoms, and now menopause symptoms, are treated more seriously as a result, simply of being a white cisgender woman, gender identity, racial and cultural identity, and so on, are extremely unfairly balanced in our current healthcare environment, a space where I have a huge amount of privilege. For those that aren't sure what cisgender means, it simply means being born and assigned a specific sex, female or male, at birth and identifying as that gender.
Liesl 02:40
Yes, and reading some articles about trans people navigating periods, I realized that companies often refer to products like tampons and pads as feminine hygiene products versus the more inclusive menstrual hygiene products. I know I've been guilty of that as well, without thinking about it or questioning the exclusivity of that language
Malea 03:01
agreed, and preparing for this episode and the podcast in general has definitely expanded how I think about and talk about people who have periods to more accurately reflect those experiences.
Liesl 03:13
So, can we dive into our ask flow question?
Malea 03:17
Let's get into it.
Liesl 03:18
Do trans men menstruate?
Malea 03:20
Yes, and no, and everything in between. But before we share our interview and our research, I also want to state that, as we mentioned in our first period, our first period, our first episode in our menarche episode, our menarche episode, that periods are unfortunately political, and this episode is likely to cause some listeners discomfort due to the topic, we support all menstruators, regardless of gender or gender identity, and want this to be a safe space to learn about and discuss all things menstruation, whether you're a 13 year old having your first period, a white cisgendered woman, or a transgender person, or non-binary person, you belong. If you're listening and you don't like the topic. You're welcome to stop listening. We won't be tolerating hate or bigotry on this or any other episode. If you want to listen, but feel this is a topic your children or others around you aren't ready for, pop on some headphones or find another time to listen when they aren't present.
Liesl 04:13
Absolutely, we are an inclusive podcast and space for all menstruators and anyone interested in supporting period equity, health, and awareness.
Malea 04:23
So, back to the question, can trans men menstruate? As with most things in this world, the answer is not a simple yes or no. It seems we've both found that there's quite a bit of diversity in the experience of periods among trans and non-binary populations, both in the medical literature and in firsthand accounts. So, let's first consider transgender and gender diverse people assigned female at birth, that is, their exterior genitals appear female, and so, without further investigation, they are declared girls at birth, but as they grow up, they don't experience feeling female, instead they may identify as male, as fluidly going back and forth between male and female, or as feeling neither gender and. All kinds of different identities along the spectrum. As an aside, I want to suggest reading the book Symptoms of Being Human by Jeff Garvin, about a gender fluid teenager navigating high school and family life. The book doesn't touch on menstruation, but I think that it does give a very realistic look at what it is like to be different and to not fit into that binary. It is fiction and is really more of a middle school, high school age book, but I found it excellent, and it gave me an appreciation for how much people who don't fit the binary have to go through that you and I, Lisa, have the privilege of not having to experience.
Liesl 05:33
Interesting, I'll have to add that to my list. As a reader, I think it is become increasingly important to me to seek out books by authors or books that have protagonists that are from a different social location than myself.
Malea 05:45
Absolutely, anyhow, the trans and gender diverse population might experience a heightened level of dysphoria with the onset of the period, aka menarche, or mental health challenges with ongoing menstruation. Accordingly, they may choose to pursue gender-affirming care, such as hormone therapy or surgery, which could suppress their period. My research also led me down the path of looking at period products for people beyond cisgender women, and how we talk about periods and the wider population.
Liesl 06:13
I'm interested in hearing more about the different products you discovered. For my research, one review I read cited as many as 88% of the trans population being interested in some form of menstrual suppression hormone therapy, which includes estrogen blocking and progestin, or progestin-based options, as well as testosterone, sometimes referred to as T, seems to be the most common route for achieving this.
Malea 06:38
I think it's important to also point out that these hormones aren't specifically female or male, either. I think a lot of people don't realize that many of these hormones exist across genders, just in different amounts. We tend to think of testosterone as inherently male, but women do, in fact, require testosterone, just in much lower levels than men. For those with female reproductive organs, testosterone is important for our sex drive, bone and muscle health, mood and energy, and our menstrual cycles and reproductive health. The same is basically true of estrogen for those with male reproductive organs, they need estrogen too, but in far lower doses than those with female reproductive organs.
Liesl 07:16
Time and again, Malea, you and I find that the world is not as binary as it has been socially constructed to be.
Malea 07:25
Absolutely, for those who are looking to stop their periods, hormone therapy suppresses ovulation and thins the uterine lining, which is what sheds during your period. Consequently, periods can lighten and eventually even stop altogether, which is called amenorrhea. We do have a list of vocabulary terms like amenorrhea and cisgender and all things menstrual on the blog, but how this hormone suppression works does depend on the type of hormone therapy used, and over 90% of people who receive testosterone injections stop having periods within six months, testosterone gels or creams may take longer to work, or they might not be as effective at blocking menstrual bleeding, which might be an option for people who are okay with some breakthrough, or experiencing some bleeding, or just people looking to have more control over their periods without completely stopping them.
Liesl 08:19
Hormones are not the only method of stopping one's period entirely, gender-affirming surgery, including hysterectomy, which involves removing the uterus, is one way of stopping menstrual bleeding. Different methods of birth control, whether hormonal, like pills, or non-hormonal, like a copper IUD, can also be used to suppress a period,
Malea 08:36
and some people, whether trans, gender diverse, or cisgendered, may benefit from one or a combination of these options. I love that so many options are available, and I wish we, as a collective society, talked about them more openly, regardless of gender identity.
Liesl 08:50
Talking about these things is important, so people know that they exist, and that there are options. I want to note that, while all of these are great options for menstrual suppression, they also are beneficial for preventing unwanted pregnancy, since hormone therapy may suppress menstruation and lower fertility, but not completely eliminate the possibility of pregnancy in individuals who still have a uterus and ovaries, as we discussed in our first episode regarding period sex. Sperm can survive, those little suckers can survive for several days, even up to a week, and a uterus.
Malea 09:22
The uterus is a powerful thing, but that's a great point when it comes to family planning, which may not be addressed as thoroughly for transgender and gender diverse peers.
Liesl 09:32
Big disservice to their patients, to say the least.
Malea 09:35
Absolutely, when it comes to family planning, providers who assist with any type of menstrual suppression should talk with patients about reproductive health and having children across their life spectrum. For instance, starting testosterone and puberty blockers before puberty may be beneficial for some people, but it's important for providers to discuss with their patients that this could prevent reproduction function from developing in the future, whereas waiting. Until after puberty could preserve some of that. Also, there's considerations for using hormone therapy during pregnancy and the effects it could have on a fetus.
Liesl 10:08
Very important considerations, because many trans people do want children and should be fully informed of their options and the and the impacts of those options. So, Malea, while some trans and non-binary people assign female at birth, sometimes referred to as AFAB, may effectively eliminate their periods. Others may still bleed a bit, and others may also not pursue suppression at all. While I read more scientific articles, you seem to dive into more first-hand accounts of being trans or non-binary and dealing with periods. Tell me, what you found.
Malea 10:38
Yeah, my favorite of these articles, and it will be linked on our blog, is by Wiley Redding, who calls himself a quote trans dude, and has experience going through period suppression and gender dysphoria. He states that periods are usually not talked about among trans men or gender diverse populations, which I think a lot of cisgender women can actually relate to. He says, quote, talking about our bodies is sometimes the best way to fight dysphoria and learn new things about how to improve our lives, which I think is great advice for anyone, regardless of gender or gender expression.
Liesl 11:09
Definitely, half the population are menstruators, but periods affect 100% of us in some way or another, and should be talked about.
Malea 11:17
Absolutely, and Wiley states that he does use period suppressing treatments, but occasionally has a breakthrough period. It sounds like it's taken time for him to be okay with that, and that talking about it openly with peers has been a huge help in this area of his life. He also has some great advice on dealing with periods for trans men and non-binary people with periods.
Liesl 11:35
What are some of his recommendations?
Malea 11:37
Well, for one, he talks about viewing getting your period as a medical or health issue, rather than as a female issue, and to remember that anatomy is not as binary as society would have us think. As mentioned, both men and women, and everyone in between, needs both testosterone and estrogen, even though we are taught that these are gender binary. Wiley reminds us that there are more similarities between us than differences when it comes to our anatomy.
Liesl 12:00
That's also a good reminder, Malea, that some people are born intersex. In fact, that's what the I in LGBTQIA stands for. Intersex means that individuals born this way may have reproductive organs and/or sex characteristics that do not fit neatly into the socially constructed binary of male or female,
Malea 12:19
and it's not as simple as this or that, and nothing in between. There's a vast array that we don't talk about enough. Wiley also recommends talking with other trans guys to avoid feeling isolated. He says he has heard a lot of pain in the voices of trans men about periods, but that talking together can reduce shame and the pain and help de-gender the experience. Another source of support for trans men who menstruate are period underwear, designed specifically with them in mind. Companies like Untag and Tomboy X are two that responded with support when we reached out to them about this episode. Both have gender-neutral period underwear and options, while Untag specifically has period underwear and products for the trans male.
Liesl 13:04
I did a little looking into this to Moolia, and I was happy to learn that the company Thanks, who makes which makes period underwear, also released a boy short version of their leak-proof period underwear and advertised it with a trans male model. Of course, I think we would be remiss to mention these menstrual products, without again referencing the reality of period poverty, and that the trans population specifically is at a disproportionate risk of socio-economic hardship, and may not be able to afford some of these products designed with them in mind.
Malea 13:34
That's true. Period underwear is definitely a financial investment, even though prices have come down over the years, they are still expensive. On the flip side, you can use them month after month after month, unlike a single disposable box of tampons or pads. So, long term, they could be a good financial investment, although it may be a hardship upfront. Another option is the company Lil Helper, which we've mentioned in our first episode, in addition to their Life Saver mats, which we discussed around period sex. They also have a wide array of washable, reusable menstrual products, such as pads, as well as a number of other products. They have a variety of products in different colors and patterns that are not feminine at all. They have bold primary colors, they have dark colors. I saw Mo, the owner of Little Helper, sharing primary and dark colors in a recent post. I think this is also a great company, because Mo, while not a trans man, can understand a lot of the trans experience as he talks openly about growing up with gynecomastia, or overly developed breast tissue on his male body, and how uncomfortable that was for him. I imagine the male, the trans male community could relate to that discomfort, regardless of your gender identity or expression. Period products shouldn't be seen as inherently male or female.
Liesl 14:47
Menstruators and menstrual hygiene products,
Malea 14:52
yes,
Liesl 14:52
language is important. You and I will come back to that again and again, but language is powerful, and that reflects how people think of the world and. It encourages us to be more inclusive. Love to see menstrual products marketed in a more neutral manner. In episode two, our friend Priscilla mentioned the sport variety of menstrual products, and I know you and I, Malaya, can both picture the packaging of a particular brand that shows the very female silhouette of a runner, and so many of these packages and products, so many of these rely on some form also of like pink or flowers, or they
Malea 15:27
have flower a scents. Ooh, so I was born female and identify as female again, the term cisgender, but even I don't like all that pink and all the flowers. But let's pivot to more of the science.
Liesl 15:39
Yes, so what about trans women assigned male at birth? This had not even occurred to me, Malea, but in our research we found that some trans women on hormone therapy do experience something akin to a period,
Malea 15:53
and I think most of the population probably isn't even aware that this is possible, but as I've mentioned a few times now, I'm a broken record, we all have both quote unquote female and male hormones in our bodies, regardless of our actual assigned or physiological gender. But Lisa, tell me more about what you found.
Liesl 16:10
Love, love that broken record, Malea. Keep on playing it, it's the only way we unlearn the kind of incorrect limiting things we were brought up with. Yes, let me tell you more. So, trans women may take a combination of therapies, such as androgen blockers, progesterone, and estrogen, as their gender-affirming hormone therapy, and some anecdotal reports by trans women on these indicates that they may experience menstrual-like symptoms, such as cramps, tender breasts, bloating, and mood changes. These cyclical experiences, which some trans women have identified as gender affirming for them, could be classified as a bloodless menstrual cycle. I can see how that would be incredibly affirming for trans women, and why trans men might want to suppress those symptoms and experiences. So, what is actually going on physiologically to create the cycle? There's limited research, but in one study I read that tracked hormones and symptoms among trans women, it was found that many symptoms for this population related more to estrogen levels than progesterone, which is different from in cisgender women. So, the processes are different, and of course, trans women's periods do not involve the interaction between a hormone cycle and the uterine cycle. However, it should be recognized that trans women may experience a period nonetheless. Since we're both concerned, Malea, about health, and recognize that access to good health care may be more difficult to come by for the trans community, regardless of gender. I want to return to the subject of healthcare. Undoubtedly, gender diverse and trans men experience menstrual complications and disorders, and I imagine they often do not get the attention they deserve with regard to these medical conditions. What did you find?
Malea 17:50
I think that's true. And in talking to a friend who has some trans male family members, as well as doing research for this discussion, I think there are multiple layers. Here we are lucky in the Portland, Oregon area to have several health clinics that specifically focus on gender diverse and trans individuals, but so much of the country does not have that. In fact, there appear to be areas where many trans individuals simply do not feel safe seeking health care or services for their reproductive health or any health care due to community attitudes towards them. For these populations, I want to mention the Rainbow Railroad, which helps trans and gender diverse and other LGBTQIA plus people to get to safer communities, and I will link that to the blog. But even when access is safely and reliably available, it's not as straightforward as saying a trans men should receive the same care as a cisgender man, or that a trans woman should receive the same care as a cisgender woman, simply because internal anatomy is different.
Liesl 18:47
Well, said. I think it brings up the distinction between equity and equality. Equality kind of meaning you treat everyone the same, whereas with equity, more the idea that you have to determine what individuals need rather than treating all of them the same, kind of like the troublesome or problematic concept of color blindness, like, oh, I don't see color, I treat everyone the same. Well, that disregards a lot of the reality of different people's experiences, historically and presently, and doesn't actually do a due service to them.
Malea 19:20
Yes,
Liesl 19:20
I mean, Malea, you found some unique health issues that may be present among trans men, which ought to be considered by healthcare providers, right?
Malea 19:28
Yes, and this is one of those additional layers of providers giving proper care and patients seeking proper care. I know of several trans men who avoid seeking care because it brings up gender dysphoria. As a cisgender woman, I hate getting a pap smear and having my cervix checked. I can't imagine being male with internal female reproductive organs and having to undergo those exams. Same with being female, but having what we consider to be internal male organs and having to undergo those particular exams.
Liesl 19:56
True, this is an area in which healthcare providers really. Have a duty to make sure their patients are comfortable and feel safe during their exams. This could be having open discussions before an exam, or even in a separate appointment before an exam, or it could be inviting a trusted friend or family member into the exam room for support,
Malea 20:14
and treating these exams as simply healthcare and not women's healthcare or men's healthcare, but it goes beyond simply the exam. Providers really need to be open about the effects of increased testosterone for trans men, which can cause vaginal atrophy, something that many trans men welcome and want, but with every pro, there is unfortunately a con. On the flip side, testosterone can also increase risk of bacterial vaginosis, cystitis, or cervicitis in trans men, all of which are extremely uncomfortable and require medical care. Beyond these physical concerns, there are also mental health concerns to consider when it comes to these potential negative side effects. A lot of trans men, unfortunately, experience persistent pelvic pain, which could also trigger PTSD or depression or other aspects of gender dysphoria. Wiley Redding, and others I read about were open in talking about how traumatizing medical care can be when one's healthcare doesn't match their gender expression and lived experience as a trans or gender diverse person.
Liesl 21:11
One more reason why trauma-informed care is so critical, but I also wondered, Malea, in the context of this, what patients can do themselves to prepare for a healthcare visit. How can they empower themselves? One organization called Trans Hub provides some downloads that will link on the blog, which are designed to help patients clearly communicate their needs and expectations during medical appointments. For example, there's a template for a doctor letter that provides space for clarifying one's gender, pronouns, menstruation status, and even preferred terms for talking about one's body. There's also a list of questions to ask a doctor or clinic to help you decide if they are gender affirming and worth visiting.
Malea 21:50
That's so helpful. I know where I work, our system does have a spot to note gender expression, pronouns, and so on, but it's not in an obvious place, and it can be all too easy to mistakenly address someone by the wrong pronouns, or to make incorrect assumptions, or to even use the wrong name. It was uncomfortable at first, but I've made it a conscious practice to not assume anything when speaking to a patient, and if it feels like the patient might be comfortable with me doing so, I will ask about pronouns, or how I can help them be more comfortable in that healthcare environment.
Liesl 22:20
I think we both agree that the onus should not be on the patient, but rather the provider. There is an inevitable power imbalance there, and you are in a vulnerable position as the patient. Physicians and other healthcare providers should be more aware of the diversity that exists among menstruators. A great resource with recommendations for providing affirming patient-centered care is the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, or WPA-TH, WPATH. Side note, this very month I read an article that the Federal Trade Commission and four states sued WPATH, arguing it made deceptive claims about gender-affirming care for minors, and that its members made a profit. And well, I'm not going to go into depth about this. I think for me the concern here, and in hearing this, is that this could very well be a political move by the Federal Trade Commission, since challenging clinical medical guidelines is pretty unusual territory for this agency.
Malea 23:15
Amid the current political climate, that unfortunately does not surprise me. Many forms of opposition persists, but the field of healthcare needs to pick up the mantle and expand our abilities to work with and support our diverse patient populations, whether they be trans, gender diverse, from a different cultural background than us, and so on. We are lucky to live in a city and really on a coastline with several clinics and healthcare organizations that specifically support the trans and gender diverse communities, not just in their words and claims, but in their actual actions. There's so many people who don't have access to that across the country and the globe.
Liesl 23:50
I hope that we will see that change over the course of our lives. Anyways, folks, there is so much more to talk about when it comes to these topics that we could easily go on for hours, but I'm really excited to get to our interview.
Malea 24:03
Yes, but before we get to the interview, we also want to remind listeners that all of the resources mentioned in this episode will be linked on our blog at Let Me Tell You About My period.com and of course, if you know any resources you want to pass on to us and our listeners, please send them our way by commenting on the blog or sending us an email at let me tell you about my period@gmail.com Knowledge is power, and, like Wiley Redding says, talking about these things openly is a benefit to us all. Now that we have some context about what it is to be trans or non-binary and deal with periods, whether that's having them or not having them, let's get to our interviews. We have two interviews today, one is with John and the other is with Vi, and we had a great time interviewing them, and hope you'll enjoy what they had to say.
John 24:51
So, hi, I'm John, and I'm the show runner of the Imagination Production, where we are currently making a series. Inspired by the Sherlock Holmes stories, and in our show, Sherlock is a trans man, and I'm also playing Sherlock, and we are actually working on an episode right now, which is called The Stag Under the Moon, to represent the whole topic about having your period as a trans man, and
Liesl 25:17
we look forward so much to watching that. Yes, I
John 25:21
think I think it will come out around autumn this year. So, yes,
Liesl 25:27
we will stay tuned. Then, is
John 25:28
it in German? I know it's in English. Um, like our whole production cast and cool, we are pretty international. Okay, so we have people from Germany, from France, from Scotland, England, Belgium, so kind of whole Europe is included.
Liesl 25:44
Excellent representation nationally, as well as representation of a lot of different identities.
John 25:50
Yes.
Liesl 25:50
Well, wonderful. Thank you so much, John. What do you remember about your first period, and or how it made you feel?
John 25:57
I can't really remember the first time when I actually got my period anymore, but I remember that at certain age I was quite anxious every time when I went to the toilet because I knew it could happen anytime now, which was a scary thought itself.
Liesl 26:15
And did you experience dysphoria from an early age around having your period?
John 26:20
I think I just hated it when my family members tried to help out, and telling me stuff like, oh, starting your period is just a sign of you becoming like a wonderful young woman, which wasn't really what was in my mind, but I was still very much in denial at that age. It just confused me a lot, and it made me quite uncomfortable every month, especially because I was always having troubles with, like, a lot of pain during my period as well. It was never a great time.
Malea 26:52
I really have grown up and identify as a woman, and I never questioned that, but I also hated having my family say, "Oh, you're a woman now. I don't think that's specifically female or trans or whatever issue. I think that's a personal personality issue. I hated, I hated when my family would say that to me,
John 27:16
but also because you're starting your period quite young, like around 11, so I was just a child. I like, and when I was young, I didn't really went like, 'Oh, I'm a girl, I'm a boy. That's like, 'I'm a child. Yeah, and being like a man or a woman is like something adulterous. Yes, I was not really in contact with that yet. And
Malea 27:38
in our last episode, the person we interviewed, Priscilla. She, we talked a lot about that. This is such a huge thing that starts when you're still a child, but suddenly everybody expects you to be very adult just because of this one change. But inside, you're still.. I just want to go ride my bicycle and play.
John 27:58
Yes.
Liesl 27:59
Do you still get periods today, John.
John 28:02
Luckily, I do not. I think my period stopped when I was like around five months on testosterone, and which was really a big relief, as it isn't certain that your period stops when you're taking testosterone, and it could also come back any time, which I really don't hope, but yeah, since like the last two and a half years I have been quite good, and yeah, what
Liesl 28:27
does it, what does it mean to you to no longer have a period? Is it just kind of mostly just a sense of relief, or does it feel
John 28:33
like it's gender
Liesl 28:34
affirming?
John 28:35
Yes, I mean, obviously it's quite gender affirming. It also feels very normal to not think about it. I had one time the experience like it was like last summer or something, when one of my female friends got that period when we're like outside and she waited in the bathroom, like public restaurant, and asked me, John, can you grab me some pads, and I was just going to the shop and standing there, and it was like one and a half years ago since I last had my period, and I was like, well, do you want something specific? Do you not want me to get so I, in this moment, I felt like a little bit like maybe a cis boy experience being like, are your girlfriend or your female friends, and never being in touch with that topic before, and I was just standing there, like, oh my god, but I also have the thing, I always have like tampons and pets at my place for my friends when they're coming over, for my female friends, for my trans friend, for everyone who needs it, even when I'm not getting my pivot anymore, because maybe they didn't expect it, so I'm prepared if they are not.
Liesl 29:51
That's such an active friendship to help someone in a moment like that. I think I think at least Malea and I have both been in situations where, like, oh no, we need supply. Lies, or we've had a friend who needed supplies, and it's nice to have someone come through for you in that kind of uncomfortable, awkward, unexpected moment.
John 30:09
Yes,
Liesl 30:10
I think the case with you, representation really matters for us, and that's why we're talking about trans men having periods, because that is a reality. Think I, it's not something I'd ever heard discussed before. Normally, I really heard discussed before. And we would like to, you know, expand that conversation and make more people aware that, you know, it's not just cis women who have periods. What do you wish, if anything, more people understood about trans men or non-binary individuals, and menstruation or periods.
John 30:45
Yeah, I would say first of all that we are all just human beings as well, and we are all just trying to be as comfortable as possible in our bodies, and that not only female people are having their period, and that's it.
Liesl 30:59
Do you have any advice? You know, thinking back to when you were young, and you know, dreading that time of the month, figuring out your identity. What advice would you give a trans or gender queer teen dealing with periods and feeling kind of uncertain about the experience and uncertain about who they want to become, who they want to be?
John 31:19
I would just like to remind everyone that having your period isn't defining your gender, but just a sign that your body is healthy and working perfectly fine, which is one of the things you want for your whole life, but also for your transition, and if your period didn't stop on tea, it's also not a sign that something is wrong, but that every transition transition is just different, everybody works differently, and this might just be how your body shows you that the testosterone therapy is working as well. Then, when your period stops, because no doctor can tell you in advance, yeah, it's gonna stop for me. It was the thing that when I had the testosterone gel, my period didn't stop, but when I started to have the injections, it kind of stopped, like already a month after the first shot, so maybe it's just how your body like receives the testosterone, and that's right,
Liesl 32:18
every experience is all right.
John 32:20
Yes, I mean, that's not a guideline for like transition, and maybe some trans men or non-bank women people don't want to start testosterone or something like that, and have to still accept the fact that they're getting that period, but that doesn't make them any less like less of a human or like a man or whatever.
Malea 32:38
One of the pieces of advice that we read was instead of thinking about periods as a female problem, think of them as a medical condition, a medical aspect of being human. Yeah, and I think that that shift from female to human can help all of us.
John 32:55
Yes, definitely,
Malea 32:56
and can add empathy for those who, who aren't trans to have more empathy for our trans friends and family members and be more supportive.
John 33:06
Yes, I think really the thing which helped me the most was always thinking about my body, just shows that it is healthy that I'm able to transition, because you know you have to do all the blood tests and I had surgeries, so you need to be quite healthy to do all that, and having your period. My period was also really always on time, so it just showed up, and we're like, "Hi, your body is ready for like everything that you want to do in your life, and that's good. I also sometimes I feel like once in a month I'm getting like a little bit like of a stomach ache, like I feel like, oh, okay, this would be the time now when I would have, like, get my periods, and now I'm like, this is not making me feel dysphoric, but more like, oh, okay, my body still works like normally, the testosterone is obviously not doing something bad to my body,
Malea 33:58
but there's also evidence that cisgendered men do have fluctuations, that it's not, doesn't follow the same pattern as having a period in those fluctuations, but again, this isn't just a female experience. We, whether you are born or assigned male or assigned female at birth, we all have testosterone and estrogen in our bodies, regardless of our gender, regardless of gender expression, and I think it helps to recognize that we have both those things, regardless of how we,
John 34:30
regardless
Malea 34:30
of our anatomy.
John 34:31
Yes,
Liesl 34:32
there's so much we have in many ways, so much more we have in common than we have different. I'd love to come back again, kind of as we conclude our interview, I'd love to come back again to your content, and specifically that upcoming episode that you're going to be doing this autumn. What inspired you to address this topic in your production?
John 34:54
I mean, when I started this production, I was like thinking about stuff I would have. Like, like to see as a younger trans boy doing my transition, and I also asked my community, what, what do you want to see, what is important to you, and which topic do you feel like alone the whole time, and then I made like a list, and I also sit down, sat down with like the cast, and we talked about stuff we want to talk about, and we had that during the first shooting, we had like this march, some one of the cast members started talking about the fact that he stopped testosterone, and then at one point we were like, also, oh, did you period come back, and he was like, yes, I'm back on my period, and then we also talked about the stuff, oh, how do you handle that, and he was like, yeah, what am I supposed to do? It's just happened, and I'm fine with that. In a way, sure, it's annoying, but and then I was like, oh, I think I would really like to include this like as a main topic in one of the many episodes, and we also are planning to do like another kind of representation during that episode, because for Sherlock, he just came out like as a teenager and started testosterone when he already went through his first puberty, but we also have another trans character in the shower, but we made him like that. He came out pretty, pretty early, like in his childhood, and he never went to like this female puberty, because he already went on like human blog posts, and to show like the difference, like some people never experienced that, and some trans guys still do, and yeah, have all that stuff on screen, so that people feel less alone, because I think that's the biggest problem, that people are not talking about it, even when it's just like female people, I feel like people are always pretending that it's like something disgusting, or when Roman is like, "Oh, I'm having my period, and guys are like, "Oh, that's weird. No, it's just because nobody's really talking about it, and it's an unknown thing to, like, to most of the society, and that's that's the whole problem,
Malea 37:01
so natural, and
John 37:03
I mean it's all insane that we have like to pay for like 10 pounds and pets like that, like bro. I'm like already bleeding like once in a month, and I'm like pay for this on top of it. You want me to pay for that?
Liesl 37:20
Absolutely, that's something we talk about in our podcast. Yeah, yeah, avoidance of subjects, you know, that's a very common coping mechanism among humans to avoid things that they're afraid of, but that just increases fear and increases people's loneliness and their experiences. So, thank you for doing, making all the incredible content you make, and thank you so much for sharing your story with us.
Malea 37:44
Yeah, thank you. Wonderful. And what's the name of your, your YouTube channel, so our listeners can go and
John 37:53
like our TikTok and Instagram is just like all written together, the Imagination production, and the YouTube one is quite the same, it's just the imagination production, and then a JT for YouTube, that's it, because the user I was already taken.
Malea 38:09
Excellent,
Liesl 38:10
Vinny. Thanks for being willing to talk with us a little bit today. Periods, and we are aware that all different kinds of people have periods, it's not just a cis female experience. And this particular episode, given that it is Pride month, we're talking about trans and non-binary folks who get their periods or have gotten their periods at some point in their lives. And we're wondering, and what was your first period like?
Vinny 38:39
It was.. I don't know. It was complicated because my family was kind of like weird about talking about that stuff with us, so it was kind of scary. And I definitely overreacted to mine. I think I had my first one when I was 11, and I ran out of the bathroom. I was like, oh my god, something's happening, that's normal. But I mean, my parents had told me a lot about it, so it was kind of scary,
Liesl 39:01
you didn't even necessarily know it was what was happening at the time.
Vinny 39:04
Yeah, like my grandma told me. Yeah, so eventually you'll have to wear pads, but didn't really explain why, just that it was a thing that that girls are supposed to do at a certain point, and I'm like, okay, that's weird, but sure, yeah, I wasn't really expecting the bleeding thinking I was hemorrhaging and dying, sure. Yeah, there's the,
Liesl 39:26
there's a, there's a movie. Have you ever seen the movie My Girl?
Vinny 39:29
Yes, it is
Liesl 39:32
a sad movie, but I remember the main character, she thinks she's hemorrhaging, of course, like is living in a mortuary, so everything to her is like a sign of death. Oh
Vinny 39:41
my god, yeah.
Liesl 39:42
You didn't know when you're suddenly bleeding. Absolutely feeling scared feels like that makes a lot of sense. I don't know what your experience is with regard to gender identity, but did you have any dysphoria as when you were young with regard to your period, or did that set in at a certain point?
Vinny 39:59
I had a bit. Felt I was also in a weird place with my gender, where growing up I felt like there was a.. I was very set in the way that my family taught me, you know, you're born as what you're born as. So, my.. in my head I was like, all right, well, that means that I can never be a dude, I can't be a boy, so I have to deal with the things that being a woman puts on me. So, in my head it was dysphoria, but a different kind, where I was like, I hate that I have to deal with this, but then it was never the kind of dysphoria where it's like this shouldn't be happening in my body, because I didn't know that my body could be male while assigned female, so I was like, oh God, I hate that I have to deal with this, but I'm sure everybody does, you know, it made me uncomfortable that I thought it was just, it was that kind of visceral. I shouldn't be going through this. Happened to everyone who had a period.
Liesl 40:45
Did you kind of navigate your periods in privacy, or did you feel like you had support from family and buying products, and that sort of a thing, or is it something you were very private about?
Vinny 40:55
I had support from my family in buying like pads. I didn't have support from my family, and like explaining different options for periods, like tampons. I was not allowed to use tampons in my house. My family would not explain it. I did not understand. I figured it out eventually for friends in high school, but it was one of those things that we just couldn't. It was weird, my family to talk about it. It was inappropriate, almost
Liesl 41:19
unspoken rules. It sounds like that,
Vinny 41:21
very many. It made it kind of.. it made it a very personal thing in that, but they made sure I had products. It was just, you know, they would pick them.
Liesl 41:30
Do you still have periods today?
Vinny 41:32
No. Mine stopped within, I think, four months of starting tea.
Liesl 41:36
You mind if I ask? Injections of tea?
Vinny 41:38
Yeah, I do. I do weekly injections.
Liesl 41:41
Malea and I were learning a little bit about how periods are more likely to taper off. It sounds like with injections versus creams and some other options. Were you.. how did you feel about your, your period stopping once you started getting the injections?
Vinny 41:56
I felt really good about it. I didn't really like having mine. It was very small part dysphoria, very big part that I had a lot of health issues, I had endometriosis, my periods were really bad, on top of just I didn't like, I don't think anyone, not a lot of people like having them, but mine were severely extended and extremely painful, so it felt good on an identity level of just, I mean, it was, I felt more in line with my body, but also in a lot less pain.
Liesl 42:26
Yeah. Do you, do you continue to experience any, any pain or symptoms still to this day related to endometriosis?
Vinny 42:35
Only if I missed my meds, but otherwise, no. It's the way the testosterone make it kind of, it doesn't entirely prevent you from ovulating or having like reproductive functions like that, but it's, it definitely changes, it changes how your body kind of handles that.
Malea 42:53
So it sounds like starting testosterone helped you in multiple ways, not just with your identity and whatnot, but also with some beyond just having a period, but like troublesome aspects of having a period. Also,
Vinny 43:07
yeah, I eliminate endometriosis that I, you know, I can still ovulate, but I don't have any like track of that. All I know is that it's reduced the function that I do have to the point that I don't have to like worry about. I don't know if I grow the endometrial lining. If I do, I don't shut it, so it doesn't seem to grow where it's not supposed to, because of the
Liesl 43:28
huge impact on your, on your health.
Vinny 43:31
Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't have anemia anymore, so that's been great. It
Liesl 43:35
makes a big difference, Malea, and I both have experienced little bits of anemia, Malea Morphin, myself. But, yeah, that's that's a big deal in terms of having energy and being able to, you know, live and work and
Vinny 43:48
definitely, but there was there was a lot of like identity that I feel like did come from it too, and my my gender identity did settle more on being like agender, but I still like, I don't know, it's.. it's kind of hard to explain. I really just like my body looking, and I like my body being more masculine. It feels more on track to not have periods.
Liesl 44:10
Vinny, how do you identify, or how would you identify your yourself, your gender,
Vinny 44:16
as of right now? Just trans masculine, agender, where I like aspects of both genders, but I feel like most of them don't really apply to me, and I can't really.. I just.. I've been in a place for so long now where I don't.. I don't feel like a woman. I felt like when I was living as a man, I was kind of putting a lot of pressure on myself to be a man that is not there anymore, that I'm just trans, masculine gender, but I'm happiest like those so far. I think most
Malea 44:39
of us would do do well to put less pressure on ourselves to be any particular way.
Vinny 44:45
Absolutely, even when I felt like I was putting a lot of pressure on myself for being to be a man, it was like a pressure I realized I never put on other people, I never was looking at other people's gender like, hey, you should do this to be more of one, it was like internal
Liesl 44:59
or. Example, too, of how we all put more pressure on ourselves than other people. Yeah,
Malea 45:06
and it's come up in, in our last episode, but also in our interview just before yours, where when a lot of girls have their first periods, we get told, oh, you're a woman now, and so society and our families put all this pressure on us too.
Vinny 45:21
Yeah, absolutely.
Malea 45:22
And to be able to take that pressure off of yourself, I think is liberating.
Vinny 45:26
Yeah, and also just to redefine what it means to have your period. I feel like that's huge too, because yeah, being told this makes you a woman, it doesn't. It really doesn't. It's a biological process that a lot of people have, but I think being able to define that as something that makes you a woman or a man, or however your gender identity lies, is really important.
Liesl 45:47
Speaking, speaking of that, and like all the things we get told that are, you know, unhelpful to us, especially when we're young and figuring things out, and we tend to look to older people in our lives to help us shape our understanding of things going back, what do you wish, or what advice would you give to a trans or gender queer teen dealing with periods, and maybe starting to feel some dysphoria, or feel like they are wanting to transition their identity, their gender identity.
Vinny 46:16
The best advice I can give is mostly just that my experience with being in my late teens, but also transitioning, was going online because I was at that point in a more supportive situation, and still not in the situation where I really had very many, I had role models, but they weren't really like role models that were specifically for, you know, trans people. I found a lot of resources, like, you know, I had my mom, but my mom didn't know anything about it, about being trans, and I feel like I found a lot of resources cautiously online for people who have periods like trans men in their early teens. There is currently actually this isn't even that recent anymore. There's been a lot of pushes to start more gender-neutral companies to produce pads and tampons, that was something that I really, really wish I had had when I was a younger teen. It was very literally just the packaging, but they made them, it just, it wasn't pink floral stuff, you know? It was, it was giving people an option to kind of, you know, pick what they felt most comfortable with, and also it was cute, you know, it was cool thinking. Okay, well, fans, men in their teens, they get an option, they have their boys' pads, like that's that was so cool to me. Or, you know, age under teens, you know, they can have these pads that they're minimally labeled, or they have just normal labeling on them. Stuff like that makes a huge difference when you're still figuring stuff out, and you're in an emotional place with your identity, you know, a lot of teens are, you figure that stuff, like I feel like I figured that stuff out over a really long period of time. But talking with other trans people my age, older and younger, it can happen anytime. A lot of people have that stuff figured out before they hit like 15, so knowing that, especially with other supportive family, that you can go out and you can get products that don't really like put the wrong label on you. I don't know, stuff like that's important. I feel like we need to, it's accessible online, you can find it, but it needs to be more talked about,
Liesl 48:11
still not represented, or or as visible as, as it should be.
Vinny 48:16
Yeah,
Malea 48:17
well, and a lot of products are still labeled feminine hygiene, and a lot of stores still, when you go to the grocery store, and like, look for the sign, it says feminine hygiene products, where it really should be like menstrual hygiene to take away that degender it,
Vinny 48:35
exactly like a lot of people are afraid of a lot of terminology that comes with menstrual cycles and periods,
Malea 48:40
yeah. Well, and I think a lot of us have had the experience, regardless of gender, of standing in the aisle and looking at all the products, and like, I have no idea what to pick
Vinny 48:52
exactly.
Malea 48:53
There's
Liesl 48:54
still the bulk of the products are pink and floral, have images of curvy
Malea 49:00
running curvy women
Liesl 49:01
on it. Yeah, Malea, you.. I think I've mentioned to you, I use a menstrual cup, and so I'm not in the aisle as much anymore. Though occasionally I will buy tampons, like for my stepdaughter, but it makes me want to just stand in the the menstrual hygiene section a little bit longer next time around, just to see, like, what's there, and if I can find anything that's more gender neutral.
Malea 49:24
When I go to the UK this summer, I did plan to go and check out a few stores and see how they have products displayed.
Liesl 49:32
It makes you want to.. it's made me want to be just a little bit more aware, like I have a different lens. I view a view these things in society.
Vinny 49:42
Yeah, I had the very recent, not very recently, probably like eight or nine months ago, I had missed my shot for a couple weeks, and I had to go just buy like some really quick pads, the only ones that the corner store had, pink packaging. The pads themselves were wrapped in pink, they smelled like it was like they smelled like cherry, it was. They were so floral over the top for women. I was just like, they'll work, but oh my god.
Liesl 50:06
with the reminder, there's so many different ways to be like even a cisgender woman, you know, and like there's not just women out there who like pink and cherry scented.
Vinny 50:17
Oh, it's silly. I mean, like most people I feel like prefer unscented in general. I feel like that's always been so confusing to me. I don't know anybody who wants a scented pad. I don't know
Malea 50:30
our last episode, so we do a, we ask a question and answer it. And our last episode was, Can other people smell your period? And it always was so weird to me, why would you use a scented pad, and then you're going to have your period, and it's going to change that scent.
Vinny 50:48
Yeah, I always found that so
Malea 50:50
bizarre, because it's probably not going to change that scent for the better, even if you're the only person that can smell it.
Vinny 50:55
But it's like, okay, about in public and stuff, you know, you're not like I.. I remember the ones that I used to use, like I tried to go for the ones that were bitterly scented, but when I had to take those, no, I could smell them just when I was out and about. I was like, this is horrible. Yeah,
Liesl 51:10
more noticeable. Yeah, and they're
Malea 51:13
always like odd scents that like remind me of my grandma.
Vinny 51:16
Yeah, another vote
Liesl 51:18
for neutral and neutrality of scent as well, in addition to gender neutrality for menstrual product, Vinny, as a kind of a final question, and maybe this is a little redundant, the answer, however you like. What do you wish, if anything, more people understood about trans men or non-binary individuals, and periods, the
Vinny 51:37
experience with them, with people's, like both with how people have their periods and with their personal relationships is really complicated, and especially for, well, not even especially people that don't identify as female or as women, they can still have good relationships with their periods and their menstrual cycles, they can have good relationships with their bodies in more complicated ways than that, but like it's not.. it's not really like it's not a cookie cutter, it's not a one size fits all. Yeah, so there's lots of trans men that are totally fine with having a period. I mean, past like some people probably find it inconvenient, but there's trans men that are fine with it, and then there's also trans men that are like horribly dysphoric, cannot get out of bed. It's so bad. I feel like with mine before I came out, I landed very in the middle, where I really didn't like having them, but it felt like nobody did. And then when I came out, I got to the point where I was just, I was already in so much pain from them that I was miserable anytime I would have my period, and I, it was a constant kind of reminder of a lot of things wrong with my body. But I've met trans men and non-binary people that were totally fine with theirs. I've met a lot of trans men and non-binary people who don't have them anymore, for one reason or another, whether it's tea or just going on hormonal birth control to cease their period. But I feel like a lot of people do kind of assume that coming out as trans masks, you have to shun that out, like you know, you have to distance yourself as much as possible from it to be a man, and you really don't, I like what y'all like. Already just talking to y'all, hearing you talk about, like, gender neutral, or making it more gender neutral. That is a huge step, because a lot of people that are trans masks, their goal is to get rid of the period. A lot of people, it is, but I don't know, just paying more attention to individual experiences. It also
Malea 53:17
just occurred to me that if products were more gender neutral? It might also be easier for dads to buy products.
Vinny 53:24
Oh yeah,
Malea 53:25
or boyfriends, or whoever.
Vinny 53:26
Yeah, because there's already a lot of shame about that, for like, for cis men. I mean, there was cis men that I dated that were really weird about the idea of buying pads, but part of it isn't, you know, oh, buying a girly thing. Part of it's just that the packaging is really confusing, and it's like, okay, what size do you need, and do you need wings, and what they can't tell, and there's
Malea 53:45
not.. there's not a consistent way of saying like heavy or light, or whatever. Some brands use a number, others use words, and yeah, it's.. I mean, as someone who never took steps to stop their period, every time I had to go buy products, it was like I'm overwhelmed, and this brand changed their packaging, and now I don't know which one I need anymore, and or that brand changed the way that they describe the absorbances. It's yeah, streamlining and degendering would help a lot. Absolutely, overall, yes,
Liesl 54:22
thank thanks so much, Vin, for answering our questions, and I feel like a common thread in our interview with you, as well as we talked with a trans male content creator from Germany, common thread is each person's experiences is going to be unique, and I think that's, you know, something we are kind of a broken record on, in general, on our podcast, like that's true for cis, you know, gender women as well, but you know, there's no monolithic one size, as you said, one size fits all experience, and so it's important to leave room for that diversity within, within having periods, and the more we talk about that, I think the more. Will all hopefully be able to recognize that in society.
Vinny 55:02
Definitely,
Malea 55:03
thank you so much, Vinny. This was a great chat.
Vinny 55:06
Yeah, of course. Well, thank you all for inviting me, and let me talk for a few.
Liesl 55:09
Absolutely,
Malea 55:10
thank you, Vinny. And with that, thank you for listening to episode three of Let Me Tell You About My Period. You can find us at Let Me Tell You About My period.com or email us at Let Me Tell You About My period@gmail.com We'd love to hear from you, especially if you have a question about anything related to periods or menstruation, or if you'd love to be interviewed by us. We would love to chat with you. We hope you'll return and listen to episode four, which will be coming up later this summer, and will be focused on sports and your period. We'll see you then. Bye.
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